A spoiler review of Zach Snyder's Justice League from concerned fans, Ben and Jacob. How does this version of JL compare to the Josstice League? What about the DCEU as a whole?
Did you enjoy the Justice League movie? Let us know what you thought below.
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One thing we need to figure out before we move any farther is if dark sides mom's name is Martha. Cause that could change everything
Welcome to the is this is insane, man. I'm CAS guest
We get to talk about the Snyder verse with a Snyder. Cut.
The Snyder cut. Snyder's justice league. Eventually this league we've got Superman, Batman wonder woman. Oh, that really hurts my throat. Yeah. That's
hard. It's hard to keep up. I gave you before I even started.
Now I should have done a vocal warm up before this.
No, but seriously though, we'll keep it a little more low key for you guys. We don't want to be too intense or
whatever. We don't want to offend anyone. It's a chill day. We're just, no, all we're just here to analyze , the same movie, two different directors and a mishmash of scenes.
This is what happens when You need the corporations to make these movies and then but when you have the bean counters I feel like that's a derogatory term at this point, beacon counter, I'm going to get canceled for saying
it's there's this whole conundrum, this whole justice league conundrum is a product of too many cooks in my opinion, too many cooks in the kitchen.
you know, what's weird is I always thought the writer on a movie was always one person. And for whatever reason, I think there were two writers credited on this phone. I thought like as far
as like the writers Peter works with
as far as serious, like his
Yeah. But as far as the rules for the writers Guild, like it can only be one writer on a movie and I'm pretty sure I saw two writers in the credits. Yeah, maybe that's
maybe that has to be a thing.
Okay. Yeah. Then I'm an idiot. Okay. Yet?
I don't know why I thought that. No. And what's interesting is there's like rules as far as if you contribute X amount of dialogue then but a lot of it gets negotiated by like agents and stuff.
So like in justice league, Josh Weeden . Didn't get any credit other than a story credit. Oh, he didn't get any because he didn't write the initial script. Yeah. He didn't get credit as director. He didn't get credited as an editor. He should, he was basically the show runner.
He should have got credit for a bad dad jokes and directing a monster of a film.
like a Frankenstein. Yeah. but at the same time, like he was also, he, I think for as much don't get me wrong. Like he deserves a lot of scorn and derision, but he was also handed a crap situation. He stepped into a bad situation and did not make it better. and I'm not saying that what Zack Snyder filmed was the bad situation.
I'm saying the studio heads imposing, a restriction like this movie has to only be two hours, two hours or under that's an unrealistic expectation, especially considering everything that's Zack Snyder shot. Like you just can't do that shot. Marvel's Avengers is two hours and 24 minutes.
Yeah, you can't and you can't go from Batman versus Superman to a two hour justice league movie. there's. Yeah, movies to set up the Avengers.
I can't believe I'm saying this in the studio's defense. There was a time when movies were sold out. And if your movie is a certain length, it can only be shown so many times during the day.
And so assuming this is going to be the mega event, that it is Avengers level event. If you get it down to two hours, then you can show it X number of times and therefore you'll make more money. And so I think that's where they were coming from. but they forgot that they were trying to tell a story that they had with characters that they haven't set up yet.
And that becomes problematic.
It's a lot easier to sell out a good movie right than a terrible one. Yeah.
it's, I think , my basic understanding. Of the Snyder cut. And what I liked about it is that it had a story that was fully developed. All of the characters that we didn't know about before justice league had their backstory introduced and fleshed out and they had motivations for doing things for most of it, I would say, what's funny is the scene that was probably the coolest to watch is the least needed seat.
The one with wonder woman in a bank or whatever. that was completely unnecessary. Like we got a little bit of wonder woman and BVS. And so we kinda knew what was up with her. So we didn't actually need her like extra backstory scene that could have been cut.
Although it was the, like visually the most, one of the coolest things,
definitely I think, would that scene establishes and don't get me wrong. , you don't need much to establish this. what that movie or what that scene establishes is that. In the absence of Superman, she is stepping into the light more.
And she's trying to pick up the Slack for Superman after he has shown the way of Hey, you can be out and helping people see it's, like I said, I think that's what that was meant to do every scene,
whether it's too long or not had a purpose. So you're right. , I didn't see the purpose there, but there was one.
So there you go. thank you for coming to my defense because yeah. Cause of course, cause it seems to me like I really enjoyed this movie more than I thought I was going to. And you may be, I don't know. Didn't am I putting words in your mouth?
No, I, I honestly, I think it met my expectations. My expectations weren't super high.
Except for it did a couple of things that Eric, to me, like he made some choices that I wouldn't have made, but I think ultimately this movie working hinges on it's four hour run time to me,
I think with some CRISPR editing, it could get down to three 30 and then, and that would take out some of the like musical interludes and some stylish and stuff. And yes, I'm still emotional stuff. Just some things that like, could have kept the pace going a little bit more. But if you have,
HBO max, and they're letting you do whatever you want then. Yeah. Make it a four hour movie. But if it takes that long to pay off all of the scenes and to set up all of the set up all of the things that you've got in the movie and you still don't, I don't want to say, get to the cool part, but there's so much foreshadowing of this like nightmare apocalypse scenario in Batman vs.
Superman. And then in this movie, They just do more foreshadowing of that. So it's just we're constantly foreshadowing to this like cooler movie that hasn't happened yet. And I'd rather just have a cool movie in the one that we're watching and we don't get Superman back until, what chapter six of eight.
It's two hours in chapter five. Yeah. it's a long ways in that way. And I feel like we could have just gotten to getting Superman in earlier.
Here's what happened. Zack Snyder wanted all set, wanted seven people. he wanted a green lane lantern. And if you add Greenland turn-in, now you have even more story.
And in that case, I think you have two full movies. And he could have done a whole movie leading up to the idea of bringing back Superman. And then you could have done a whole movie, with, from Superman coming back to the end. And I don't mind them pushing back the nightmare stuff to the next movie.
I just wish we had already gotten this movie four years ago. Or two movies, Like we could have got, we could have got the first leading up to Superman right before he comes back or right after that,
a whole movie about just bringing Superman back in the Superman, just like showing up at the very end.
that's almost what we got. We just get an, a little extra bit of him in this. I would rather just in the first third of the movie, be like, Oh, this guy's got two of the three mother boxes. We've got this mother box, let's get Superman back if that's wonder woman flashes and Batman's main motivation.
For the first third of the movie and then cyborg and Aquaman, make their way onto the team.
I think you would have to, I think you would have to cut them. You would have to cut Aquaman and cyborg out of this film to get it to go faster. Cause you're introducing
too many characters. No, what I'm saying is I'm saying you can flip the trajectory there to where, by the end of the movie is when you get Aquaman or in the like last third, like come in around.
Yeah, no. I mean like you can, there's a way that you can work it to where, he comes in at the end, but then that gives you time to explore who they are and what they're doing. so you've got your main story. You're a plot. Of trying to bring Superman back and then you've got your B and C plot of cyborg and Aqua man making their way onto the team.
And then they converge and then they all deal with Steppenwolf for half of the movie or for, the next third. And then we get into some real dark side stuff for that last third of the movie. it's a lot, I don't know. I don't know. It's a lot because it's a lot,
cause they wouldn't, they tried to do, they would have did it.
I think if they could fit it in, they would have, like they had to cut cyborg out and he's integral to the like figuring out the mother boxes and they got 90% out in the justice league. Look,
Josh, Sweden, just Josh Weeden. Did, did Ray Fisher dirty? there's no, if ands or buts about that, Aside from all of the like interpersonal stuff, that Ray, Fisher's mad about if I'm Ray Fisher and I recorded Zack Snyder's movie and I've got all these scenes where dealing with really his origin story and him coming into his own as cyborg, as opposed to like dealing with who he is, if I made that movie where I'm basically the heart, like the emotional heart of the entire story, and then Josh Weeden comes in and he's like, yeah, your character, six of six, I would be furious because in this movie he is super integral to the part, to the plot.
And in justice league, he is not.
I'm juggling, . I dunno why I feel the need to just like here's what's happening. It's
what's that every drink that you have
in your hands what's happening, I've been intermittent fasting, but I've been doing it for a really long amount of time.
Like yesterday I went, I don't know, 20 something like 20 hours without eating and I'm trying to do it again and I'm starving fricking stuff. So I'm trying to do coffee black coffee and I got tea and I got water. And so I'm just like, maybe if I just keep drinking, I'll feel full,
pick up smoking, maybe then I'd think of smoking.
That'll be a good appetite suppressant.
there are actually actual like benefits to nicotine. Like it's good for your brain. Oh, wow. Yeah. yeah. There's studies that show that it like reduces Alzheimer's and stuff like that, like answers. it's just the smoke and the tar and the carbon monoxide, all that.
Yeah. Yeah. But if you get just like pure nicotine yeah.
and smelling it in your clothes. Oh yeah.
All right. So I want to go back to that scene that you were talking about with wonder woman. Cause we need to talk about the fact that she straight up murders that guy, right? Where was that? Yeah. two guys really, she like hits that one dude or throws them up against the wall. And there is a blood splatter where his head hit.
And that is woo. Just like literally, boom. It happens. I turned to my wife. I'm like, she's just killed that guy. Whoa. he goes head first in that wall and then there is a gigantic blood splatter on that wall and an indentation where his head went in, like one woman straight up murdered that dude.
We're definitely in the murder verse. We are in the murder verse.
And crap. Ah, that guy he's not gonna wake up from that one.
You never know, man. He could be fine.
Yeah. maybe, but chances are, he's not walking again. That's for sure.
We're in the the murder murder. So does this bothered him
diverse? It's not really.
I saw on the internet some references to where wonder woman was like, no, I you don't. I think in context with having a conversation with BA or with Superman was like, yeah, there's a reason you don't see my my enemies come back again and again, it's because I killed them the first time I was like, dang.
if that's Canon, go for it. And then yeah, she straight up explodes. The other guy, you just see his hat falling off of the building.
After she gets rid of the bomb and then yeah, the main villain guy, she hits him with the with the bracelets.
that's what killed Aries, So he's not surviving that. she was a little supercharged with the with the lightning, when she killed areas still.
And this is all in front of a group of school children. Okay. She's Hey, I just murdered two guys. Look at the indentation in the wall while this dudes bringing his gun up. Yup. You're about to get murdered bruh. But then And the justice league. you see all the guys tied up with the lasso and she's talking to the cops.
So Josh definitely was like, yeah, we're going to make this a little less. Murdery a little more
PG. yeah, for sure. I think that's not ah, so like the murdering us of these characters,
I think it sits okay with me. I think it's a bad thing. I'm just saying it feels, you just know that it's, it feels definitely more adult feels Snyder.
yeah. It's definitely. Yeah. And
the music is also a much more aggressive in this movie than in the other one. Like the music is way more like there,
It's the same guy. I follow junkie XL and he, they asked him to re compose. certain parts of the film for this burden. yeah, but he's fairly, he's a very capable composer obviously. Oh
definitely. We're just waiting and they really go all in on that violin,
this, there is a lot of this slow motion and honestly, it didn't take me out of the film when I was watching it, but like going back and watching it again,
that's like par for the course, I mean, man of steel plays around a lot with, slow motion, fast motion, like really showing how quickly.
These superhuman people can move and Oh yeah. They just
fly out or just the
ha no, but I'm pretty sure we can all guess.
He's fine. He landed on a random mattress somewhere.
And his hat fell off. She did that to knock his hat off, which surprised him so she could apprehend him and then, put them in the last pass, state him.
We'll find out who, yeah. Who's behind all this. Yeah.
That's what that had symbolizes.
Yeah. No, it's really hardcore. You're right. Yeah.
and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying it's a stylistic choice that he made versus, One that just changed.
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. it's, it seemed the justice league was very kid, kid friendly.
I would think, it felt like a Saturday morning cartoon five
in some spots. Yeah. It definitely had some elements of that. And that's ultimately like why that movie feels so disjointed because you have scenes that were meant to be in this movie and then you have a scene flash being like, saving those kids from, by pushing the truck away.
And being like don't stay esky. Yeah.
yeah. Forget the big, bad guy. That's totally
two different movies. Yeah.
Forget the bad guy. That's destroying the world. I'm going to go save some civilians that are in a truck or whatever.
No, everybody's got their part to play. Everybody's got their part to play, but
speaking of murdering, at the very end Steppenwolf, whew. justice league, there's that whole, there's that whole subplot of the pair of demons smelling fear. And then, they break his acts and then he's too scared. And then the para-dime is taken down. This one, he just straight gets de capitated.
Yeah. By a wonder woman. . She's not holding back. Yeah. Here's the thing like, okay. so like in comparison to Marvel, because. Marvel, I think is more uplifting for several reasons. But one of them is that most of the heroes start out as regular people and then become elevated.
And so we can identify with them in a way or relate to them. And then the characters in DC are essentially gods. Like they're either born with it or have the lineage of a God or something like, so it's a little bit harder to identify with them except for maybe Batman, which is why I think he's probably the most popular character because we probably can't identify with being a super billionaire or whatever, but
that, but in everybody, everybody aspires to be that kind of rate.
So it's like a human that we can relate to on some level experiencing some sort of grief or something. so I think that's why Batman gets elevated because he is playing in the playground of the gods. in human form. yeah. ? Or do we want to just talk about the four by three?
Yeah. So about a four by three, I expected to hate it at the beginning and I was so confused as to why, because I thought four by three meant that they were cutting out the ends.
I thought this like the wide screen was your normal , film, aspect ratio. And that all they're doing is just cutting out because I bought the full-screen version of Lord of the rings on DVD when it first came out accidentally because I went to Walmart and they put all the full screens, the full-screen additions up at the front.
And, and I was so mad at myself because when I started the movie, it said order of the Ray, because it cut off the L in the GEs to make it four by three on the ends and just scooched it in. And it was like fellowship of, and that was it because the rink was over here and they cut it out. And I was like, I'm going to have to buy this movie again.
Now, luckily Blu-ray came out and, I switched to that, but really hurt my feelings there. So, yeah. So seeing that this was in 43 as a way to preserve its original, the way it was filmed, I thought was wild. Explain to me why that's wild.
so Zack Snyder for a long time has been a fan of the IMAX format.
So if you ever go to an IMAX movie, you'll notice that your chairs lean back a little farther than normal, and that's because they're looking up higher. So it's actually in a four by three aspect ratio. it's like giant chunks of film. So it's getting, it's capturing actually a lot more information.
yeah, , so what we're watching is like a dumbed down quality so that it will fit on our screen, but it is all of the information that Zach. Intended to be shown on an IMAX screen. So you'll have some things in the frame that are on the top, right? And some things in the frame that are on the bottom left, and if you were to crop it and make it fill out your whole screen, you would lose one of those two things.
And there were a ton of shots I noticed in this film where even this shot here, that we're looking at, the hat is in the top left. And this guy looking at it is in the bottom. So if you cropped it to fit on your widescreen
TV. , you would just see like barely the tip of his head. , so that's essentially what it is and why it's important. so we're getting this very artistic types of shots and creative shots that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise. it's just, it's just having black bars on the side of your screen. I think people are more accepting of this nowadays, where we're used to having portrait mode, for instance, for stories and wide mode for YouTube and square for Facebook. So I don't think too many people had an issue with it.
Yeah. I remember when I was working at Barnes and noble and people would buy DVDs, they would get so mad if it was in widescreen when they had a full screen TV. And then now that TVs are, fast aspect ratio of TVs isn't I feel like people are a little bit more in tune now.
With there being some, black box. Yeah.
there just are different aspect ratios. Yeah. they just exist. Yes. yeah. And yeah, like there was, there's several shots like this, where something is in one corner in the top left and something else is in the bottom. And it's you can't even, you can't cut it off.
they did for the job sleek, but it's kind of a shame.
Yeah. I was expecting to be annoyed by it, but I pretty quickly ignored it and didn't think about it again. And there was one point where I think we had paused, cause I had to use the restroom or something and when I came back I was like, Oh For three silly. And that was it. Yeah. cause
if he even this shot, you would have to cut out all the stuff on the top and all the stuff on the bottom, to get the shot. But like, it's just a, it's an artistic choice and I'm not holding it, I guess anybody.
let's talk about this. because of the whole, the way there's movie set up, and this is probably my biggest, my chiefest complaint with this movie is that this movie made me scared of Superman, like he gets brought back.
And then, so he's amnesia, Superman for. I don't know, 15 minutes. And then he sees Lois and that calms him down. But then before that , we get right before flash brings him back and right before cyborg put, kickstarts the machine, to bring him back. Cyborg has this like little flash of the future and sees, Superman holding.
What we all assumed to be. Lois is dead corpse and dark side coming up behind him. So there's all this foreshadowing of Superman turning bad. All of those foreshadowing of him not being able to deal with the loss of Lois and, the Batman versus Superman flash scene of him saying Lois is the key.
And so there's all this foreshadowing of Superman is going to straight up murder everybody due to his, loss of humanity as symbolized through his loss of Lois. And, that feels one just a little, a little antidote to who Superman is, I don't think his entire humanity is based off of Lois.
I think it's based off of, John his father and his, the Kens how he was, in some of the right, exactly. And then in some of the comic books, they explore the fact that, Him and wonder woman get together because they're like we're a mortal and everybody else is going to fade away.
So you and I should probably read this out. so I don't know. I just I felt like I was waiting for the moment to happen. Every time Lois was on the screen from the point Superman came back on, I was like, and this is where she's going to get murdered. yeah. I
don't think that extra reinforcement, I don't think that extra reinforcement of the idea with cyborg vision was necessary because we already had a little bit of it, that could have been cut out for
yeah, it's not like Superman is hell boy. where it's been prophesied, that he will bring about the apocalypse. this is just one potential, outcome somehow everybody's supposed to be
it should have been. More of that in BVS, so that we understood where we're Batman was coming from, and it it got explained, but I just, I felt weird about it because it didn't explain whether it was the flash explaining it to him, or if he was having a vision or a dream.
And if he is having a vision then, My wife's like what Batman's psychic now, So
why couldn't a cyborg
and yeah. And it, and if the flash is going back in time to tell him, Hey Lois is the key. This might happen. Why can't he just give the message? Why does it have to be half psychic and then half flash?
Why can't it just be flash? Here's an iPad with all the information you need to know. Or I wrote this down on a piece of paper, here's a note, write a, drop it off and go back to the future. like. Why does it
have to be this last drive? Yeah,
here's a flash drive. That was the main course is in the shape of a lightning bolt.
That's be a,
kid's a flash drive link trademark burger. King's got flash drives for sale Lord.
anyway, I'm just saying this should have been heavier in BVS so that we had more Batman's motivation and I think it should have been more delivered by flash who we now see does have time travel abilities.
So that should have just been right there. He handed them the flash. and then we, then it would have made way more sense and we wouldn't need side. There's no need to have, CyBorD be psychic also. let's just keep it contained. You know what I mean? deal with the here and now I don't mind having a psychic, but when these characters never in any version of any comic have psychic abilities, it's a little weird.
It doesn't make sense. Like it's just, everybody's
having visions. Yeah.
Can we talk about this real quick? This Superman the call to the mother boxes, this gratuitous we lost Superman seat,
wave the wave, then circles the waves that circle the world over and over again.
Yeah. Except for that zoomed out shot.
I, I still appreciated the message here. Because it's showing you, Hey, Oh yeah, the God's dead. And now the mother boxes can send for dark side, So we have a little motivation for Steppenwolf, it, it logically made sense like, why wasn't this in the original? I don't understand.
Why did we get a cell phone of Superman with a bad mustache removed instead of this,
come on because this movie has Superman being the scary red-eyed birder, Superman, just like he's one bad day away. And, and the executives were like, we can't give that version of Superman to the world.
We need. Uplifting boy scout Superman. And I think ultimately you still had seen it through the beginning to be like, Hey, I'm saving cats. Yeah. But you
had boy Scouts Superman at the end. It's okay. To be a little worried that he might go dark. You know what I mean? But like he still was
I'd say a little bit more than a little worried. Yeah.
The extra cyborg seen needed vision should have been cut out and cause it was too much
reinforcement of that idea ending the movie on the epilogue of in the nightmare scenario with Superman, showing up and being, ready to murder.
that's the last image of Superman we see in the movie a little weird, I think.
Yeah. But that epilogue we know is new and I feel like it is the thing that least fit into this film. Like it literally just tacks on like that nightmare scene at the very end, it felt very tacked on to me.
And we're just going to put this here so that maybe we can do some more stuff later, like that's what it felt like,
Yeah. I read an article that said Zack Snyder was really thought of this as movie three or five so the next movie would explore, dark side coming to earth to get the anti-life equation.
and then Lois getting murdered and then movie five would be the nightmare scenario and trying to get. Flash back in time to reset back to, the good times. So I get it. I get the reason for the epilogue and I like the epilogue in the sense of putting characters that we wouldn't normally see together being together, getting mirror and she's obviously upset about, Aquaman being dead.
We get Deathstroke hanging out in the back with Batman, so obviously they don't have beef anymore. Yeah, we've got cyborg. We've got flash as he looked in Batman versus Superman in that flashback scene. and then obviously, joker and Batman having a fun conversation. And if that's the only thing we get of Ben Affleck, Batman and Jared Leto joker, then I guess I'm okay with it.
But I think that scene proves that they had something there that they could have explored. Which is too bad. And I hope they find an Avenue to explore that again.
Yeah. I hope it continues, and there's just a couple of things. Yeah. You're right. This movie could have been a solid three 30, three, 15 a minute.
Great movie. it's great attention grabbing movie. There's a couple of things that are, they're slightly gratuitous but I still enjoyed it. I enjoyed every single moment of it, except for maybe the singing to Aquaman was like a minute too long, But the rest of it was great. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. it was a fun idea. it's just there's so many things that like, if, okay, if you're trying to make a two hour movie, you have way too much content and you have to go back to square one and rewrite that movie. if you're trying to make a two hour movie out of what you have here, you have to go back to the very beginning and start all over.
If you're going to make a three hour movie. Three hour and 15, you can do that. You just have to tighten up all of these little scenes. Just need to be just like a little tighter. You don't get to linger nearly as much that wonder woman fight scene in the bank. Just tighten it up a little bit. This, tighten it up a little bit.
you do that. and I think you've got a rock solid three hour and 15 movie, three 30,
if with all of the hoopla about the Snyder cut, if the movie would have only been three hours, people would freak out. They'd be like, who cares? It's not a big enough deal. Like even with it being four hours, I felt like it wasn't even that big of a difference.
It was the same story. Except you, you understood what it was. Story beats
follow. Yeah. yeah. This story beats make sense. And they follow the exact same trajectory. Only, subbing in a little bit of a dark side and that's it so yeah, to make this a four hour ordeal. to make it worth all of the buildup.
You have to use every piece of footage you shot. Yeah. 100% because you have HBO max, it doesn't matter. Runtime doesn't matter. You've got, you've broken it into sections so that people could pause and come back and watch the rest of it tomorrow,
which I loved by the way, because then I knew when I could pause it part two.
Okay, pause. I'm going to go to the bathroom, get a cup of tea or heat, something up, whatever, you knew exactly. Exactly when to pause the thing. And I love that. I really appreciate that instead of, and it beats having to start another video as well. Like I'm glad they didn't do episodes. And I had to start another episode.
every time it goes to another part, I thought it was smooth. I really appreciated it.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. yeah. I think, now that Disney plus has shown that you can have, a wander vision, Amanda, Lorian a Falcon, a winter soldier type show. Then they can follow that model and do something interesting with these characters in the HBO max world.
I firmly believe, it doesn't have to be theatrical release and it doesn't have to be Zack Snyder either. if he's I only want to do movies, then just let him do movies. but you could continue this.
Yeah. This is set up perfectly dark side is set up perfectly for me. I wasn't too upset that he wasn't actually I was hoping he would come into earth and come into the world but at the same
time, I thought he was going to be the final act villain. Yeah. At the same
time, it set it up for him to be an even bigger villain. So if they do continue they have the bad guy to work with. I did feel like this CG here on, on him was a little subpar. Like it was the worst of all the CG was dark side in his minions.
and maybe it's just because it's older but they did update Steppenwolf and these little metal things looked great. Yeah. They're like moving and stuff and like the man that was creepy awesome. Like when he got shot with all those arrows. Yeah. And
he like, he shook them off.
never seen anything like that. That was awesome. Yeah. this whole scene was embellished. It wasn't just, it wasn't just stepping Wolf, like wrecking everybody. It was they fought back and damaged him, like really slowed him down and stuff. and you got the feeling that they took him down for a second anyway until the shot pops back up.
But yeah, the Amazons are strong. They're strong. They're not like, they're not like us, I thought it was good that they showed that was strengthened this version of it.
Yeah, no, he was way more formidable in this. Version than in the first one.
And the first one, he felt old to me. He felt like an old man who was like part of some like mother box cult. like the last true believer for the unity. But in this movie, it's like he's in this this abusive relationship with dark side and he's fallen out of favor and has to owes him 50,000 worlds.
And then he can't even get, he can't even get dark side on the phone. Can't even get him on the phone. He's got to talk to decide. He's got to talk to the new girlfriend is like, Dark sides. And at home right now. Sorry, call back later.
He's out of the office.
His. Yeah, but 50,000 worlds.
That's a lot of worlds. I didn't even know. There were so many,
know. So many, I didn't know. There were 50,000 worlds. And so if you owe 50,000 worlds, how many worlds did you spend before you owed 50,000 worlds?
How big of a screw up did you screw up to? Oh, 50,000 worlds. Like I don't blame him for now ad.
come on. I can't blame him for not wanting to talk to you.
yeah. Whatever you did it, wasn't something simple. Yeah. You screwed up big time.
Better get this anti-life or whatever are the mother boxes are your
Yeah. Get that anti-life equation.
Oh, speaking to mother boxes, I really appreciated this scene too.
They added the extra wonder woman footage. So she knew what was up with all this stuff. Cause she, wasn't around back then.
Yeah. But she gets the the flaming arrow from mom that mascara. Yep. So then she gets to, she goes down into the basement of the Pantheon or something. I don't know somewhere at Greek.
some random monument something. but
yes, random monuments and they got this whole battle of dark side. It was cool though, man, we got to see some, we got to see green lantern. Yeah, we saw
right. And Harry's
right. We saw the old gods. wonder what happens on areas with a bald head, but we know areas.
Yeah. We know he got taken up. what happened to Seuss?
Yep. I don't know. I don't know.
This was at the scene with Aqua man gave him a little bit of a motivation for going to
he's not, he's not trying to be Atlanta and he's just doing his own thing. So this gave him a reason to go back to Atlanta and find out it's under attack.
everything had a purpose for me.
Yeah. And we also got the, we also got to find out that's the, that's his mom's Trident. it's not a Trident
called it a try it, but it's a five dent.
Yes. It's a, here's your mother's
tried. In-hand five.
. It's a pain to try it into.
Plus two dependent
that's even happen. How did they let that? Like how does somebody go? Hey how does it get by whoever's putting together these scenes and posts like, or whoever's the props guy. All right. Your job is to make a Trident. Okay I'm going to put five spheres on it. No, it's a, tried it try means three, by the
how did they let that get by?
Actually, here's probably how the conversation went. Look, if somebody is analyzing how many tips are on the Trident, then we've got a bigger problem. But this was also five years ago and podcasts. Weren't really a thing so much. if you count it, you guys would be analyzing
it's three on each side.
If you count the middle as a side, why not? Yeah, we can do some common core math here and maybe figuring out how
it's a tried into my double Tritons.
Oh my God. from multiple perspectives as a try to, okay. Yeah, from
my perspective. It is a try Dan truth.
Be damned. The truth is relative.
Excuse me. Excuse,
baking off. This is your mother's Trident, What makes this unique is it's not a tried into doll. It's special because it's a pendant.
Look , could, could this have just been an email? Can you just,
I don't need to hear the whole story.
I have to have a whole meeting about the pendant. Send me an email. Could you have texted this to me? Yeah.
Sorry about that. Sorry about that, Ben
too long. Didn't read.
All right. yeah, you know, okay. If you had to rank the DC E movies, where do you put Snyder verse justice league?
I actually rather enjoy this film, although it didn't give me that like extra excitement that you have when you watch a new film, because it's the same film in
a way, In the same story, beats a hundred
percent, same film correctly. Yeah. It was corrected. Yeah. And it was good. Yeah. But I didn't get that. Like I'm watching
right? Yeah. I didn't get that. Like I'm watching a new movie vibe. I got the, I'm watching a better version of the same movie vibe So it's hard. It's really hard to judge this because I wish I could forget justice league. And then just watch this fresh and I'd be like, Oh, okay. And then I would have a better, way to judge this, but because I'm seeing, because I'm seeing it like just completely fix what was wrong with the other one.
I'm inclined to give it a higher score. like this is a four out of five for me. It's is right. It's good. It's above average. It's right now I enjoyed it more than BVS. I say that, I don't know. I don't know. It's about the same. It's about the same as BVS. the ultimate edition of BVS better than previous.
Yeah. I don't think you can put regular B it's like, why can't they get the movies? Right. The first time I don't unders DC has a lot of,
because I assume it's because these DC executives are like, you'd need to. Get this movie down to two and a half hours or something that like we can't put.
And I think Zack Snyder just films too much stuff. Or can't, doesn't write it tight enough in the first place.
Yeah. if you're the part of the problem is we didn't have Aquaman before this movie. If we would've had Aquaman first, you wouldn't have to have all that set up. It's arguable.
You could have taken out some of it, but so you had to have something to set up Aquaman. we didn't have a flash movie yet. you didn't need all three of them. Maybe you could have done at least two before you go to justice league. We know it works in the Marvel universe, right?
So to make a justice league movie, my argument is you have to make a four hour movie, to make a Batman versus Superman movie. You have to make a long movie so that you understand why Batman doesn't like Superman so much. And I still feel like they dropped the ball a little bit. if he would've got the flash drive from the flash, then a hundred percent, we all would have been on board.
Like you gotta kill him. You, we got evil Superman.
One thing we need to figure out before we move any farther is if dark sides mom's name is Martha. Cause that could change everything.
I'm glad I said that. As you were saying. Good
timing on that.
yeah. Yeah. Besides mom's name is Martha. We got a whole of the movie, bro. Yeah.
Then we're all friends. but sir, but
funny. How funny would it be? How funny would it be if they actually made that movie? And then as soon as dark as that drops.
On the earth, if Batman's just Hey, before we get started, any chance your mom's name is Martha. And he's like, what war looks like? We're fighting.
Honestly, the marshal line actually made in the extended edition. It makes more sense like it, that line. Yeah. sure.
Absolutely. cause it gets
fleshed out the whole Martha thing in the background, like all that stuff gets flushed out in the the ultimate cut or whatever it is. so it makes more sense.
The fact that anybody ever put that together is really, it's really sad,
but it's not that they're, Batman didn't know that Superman was Clark kit.
I don't think so. he didn't know his mom's name was Martha.
no. I'm just saying, like I'm saying like insanity, not in the no. I'm saying like in our world, not in the world.
Oh, in this realm of complaining about movies, nobody noticed that their names were the same.
No, I'm just saying those aren't two dots that I ever connected, and I just find it interesting that DC's two biggest to two of their biggest characters have moms with the same first name. so the fact that it's never just like randomly brought up, in the same way that like.
Alliterative names are so prevalent in comic books, Clark Kent.
Here's what I think happened. I think the DC writer, whoever wrote these stories, it's probably the same person at the beginning and his name, his mom's name probably was Martha, but Martha Kent always went by Ma' Kent right.
Instead of Martha. So that's why nobody connected the dots. I think no,
like Martha Wayne is around a whole lot, To be reminded of what her name
is. Yes. I think Zach Snyder actually set that moment up perfectly in the ultimate edition. I thought it made a lot of sense. I think it was set up enough.
Batman obviously has emotional issues. It made sense for him to get triggered there. Definitely. for me, it was convincing the first time I watched it, no, not so much the ultimate edition. Yeah. It all kind of sink in enough, for it to work for me
Yeah. especially with that scene, like I just wanted Superman from the get-go to just be like, hold on, we need to talk.
We need to talk
this out. Yeah, no, my wife was like that too. She's like, why doesn't he just tell him that it's Lex, I quoted because then you wouldn't have the school
like true. We wouldn't have this like completely manufactured fight scene. Right?
How else are you going to get that movie? I thought it was all right. I thought it was all right. Yeah. Yeah. it works. It worked for me. I just watched it. It works for me the first time. Now this time. Yes. So just DC and future, get your movies right before you release them.
man. DC. Here's the deal. Oh The story of all the movies you want to make. Yeah. Please land it out. Also
star Wars, Lucas film, if you're listening to the same thing.
Yeah. Oh gosh. Lucasville but if you're listening, if you're listening Lucasfilm, bruh, just storyboard out the whole thing and then make a trilogy.
Come on. How was there not
a beginning, middle and end. How was there not a result that you wanted to get to by episode nine? why wasn't there? Just okay, we're going to either go here. Maybe we'll go here or here and to have it in mind. How do you start a franchise? Yeah. With no idea where you're going, like more news came out recently.
I don't even know. No more news came out recently where they admit they had no idea what they were doing.
Yeah. look, knock the prequels all you want. But George knew what he was doing. Movies one, two, and three for the most part.
He at least had an outbound.
My argument. Yeah. Now my argument is that they should have started with attack of the clones. Yeah. And then had an entire movie of him turning of him being bad. Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. But look, whatever, but I watched those Twilight movies. A week and a half ago.
And it's they, they moved into post-production on one movie and the next movie was starting to film almost immediately. They were like, look, we're on the clock. These kids are getting older to be fair. They had
source material to draw from.
True. They had that, but that's what I'm saying. Like y'all should figure out what your source material is create that and then build your scripts off of pick
a comic book.
If you're doing, if you're doing a pick a couple novels. Yeah. Do an outline. Just do some bullet points, get 10
an outline. Just so
yeah. To start. Yeah. Put something out there. So you had an idea. It can change. It's okay. If it changes midway, but at least you know the direction you're going. I heard feedback that the reason that we know that Lucasfilm, they had no idea what they were doing is because the guy that did the CG for the the our destroyers coming out of the ground first, they were going to come out of hangers and they were like, no, it'll look cooler if they just come out of the ground, like they're coming out of the grave.
And he has a rescale, the starter stories did not even be accurate so that they come out of the ground so that you could see that many in one shot. Yeah.
It's a real tragedy. What happened there? Have
you heard the tragedy? Just
daughters, the Palpatine.
Yeah. man. Have an outline, man,
by the way, that could have been your story.
Oh wait, there was another Palpatine. so he had a son slash his clone that just didn't do anything. He was like, Oh, just get married and have a daughter. Like
what? Oh, wait, hold up. That was a clone.
Yeah. His son is a
clone. Oh, I didn't realize that. I thought no, I thought he got down with somebody.
So you had the
potential, this entire SQL trilogy, you had the potential to be fighting the clone of the emperor. That was younger. He was already in retrospect, it was already in the story. And they could have had that, that would have been Epic to see the young emperor, like fricking, getting info from his dad had a lot of things.
I'm just saying they could have had a lot of things. it's, it seems like your point of view on this has changed a little bit. Cause he used to be like very pro seven, eight, nine. Seems like it's like your change.
I'm still like of the Mo of the SQL trilogy. I'm still very much in the corner of the last Jedi, because I felt like force awakens was a bit of a retread, but they got the tone.
And that was nice. But. much in the same way that like we all speculated with one division, there was all this speculation on, who is Snoke and who are raised parents and is she Obie one's daughter, and all this kind of crazy stuff. so Ryan Johnson just being like, you know, taking a sharp left turn, I thought was a brilliant move and giving us something that we didn't expect to see.
now ultimately was that what was best for the entire trilogy? Probably not, but yeah. there was, they also, had colon Trevor, OQ gonna make that third movie. And then, if there were like creative differences, you got to go all right. Back to what we
should get back to this.
Definitely. I don't know how we got here. Just get random flash scenes,
man. The best flash scene for me was when the rocks were falling and the, what was it there under the Harbor, the Gotham Harbor.
And you see it from everybody else's perspective of just this like flash of lightning and all of the different, like poses that the flashes doing as he's like moving all this debris from falling on top of them. I thought that was a great scene. the visuals on that, where it's spectacular and the idea that Josh Sweden didn't keep that is really unfortunate.
Like how do you cut that from the movie? in place of what, I don't know how to do battle like that. Line's not important. yeah. The visuals on that were wonderful. the visuals on his first scene when the, in the dog-walking interview where he saves Iris West, those were great visuals.
more speed force more, I'm excited for the flash movie. I think that's going to be cool.
Yeah. I think they really elevated the flash character. I think he was unlikable in the justice league and then, he's still a goofy kid or whatever, but he has a purpose and he's not as competent.
Yeah. He can, at least he knows how to run fast. Like he knows how to do that and he does it and shows it off. Yep. And Saves quite a few people.
He's saved like everybody. The first time I saw the movie, I was like, what is the scene? Why am I watching this? It was just like a cluster F of CG nonsense. And I didn't get why it was in the movie at all. And it arguably could not be in the movie, but this was great to see them all.
I mean, honestly, Edison, the entire this entire set piece of under Gotham Harbor, I could jettison that whole thing. I don't think it's that important to the plot. all we've done is established that, stepping Wolf took some prisoners to find where the mother box was and these guys come in, save all those prisoners.
They have to work together. I guess that's the point of the scene is that you start to see them working as a team. Yeah. You get,
they do they work together like literally, together, right?
I think it served a purpose and it wasn't like it wasn't hard for me to wash. Did it bother you like watching it?
You were like
no, not at all, but if you take this whole set piece out, then you've cut 25 minutes from the movie. That's true. Yeah. You could get to bringing Superman back faster. You can just get to Superman faster. Yeah.
You could have them come down and steal the mother box and then just be gone.
it doesn't have to be this
whole. Yeah. And maybe Warner brothers was just like, look we've made this new, bat crawler to sell toys. They're going to try to sell some of these toys. So we need those scenes to try to sell that toy.
speaking of added scenes that I thought were actually beneficial was that scene where, Where he D upgrades Batman's armor. So the scene where one woman shows up at the back gave and outfits working on Batman's armor with Kryptonian technology, which explains why he didn't get liquified when Superman zapped him.
So I, I appreciated that. It's like everything was set up and then we had tons of setup and the payoff. Yeah. Yeah. Just over and over. And that's why this edit of the film worked for me. And I wasn't like, Oh, this four hours is taking forever.
There were, there was more than one set up and pay off and it just kept happening. And I didn't mind. I'm not
saying that. Yeah. I'm not saying that it was a boring four hours or that it was that the runtime was, was a negative. When I am saying is that for this movie to work the way it's constructed. It had to be four hours long. And that means that there are fundamental flaws in the film, as it is in its bones and its structure. There are some flaws. Now some of that is the fact that you don't have a cyborg movie or a flash movie or an Aquaman movie to lead into this.
some of it is that problem. I think the biggest sin of the justice league is how much of Cyborg's character got cut? because he really is the, like the emotional heart of the movie. He is the center, the emotional center of the movie, I think So cutting him out as much as in making him like a side piece is.
Is the biggest, problem with the justice league versus this. But, there was a better movie to be made that didn't need to be four hours long. And it starts with the writing
still arguing against, especially since we do did get it in this format. It's not a movie. it's a long thing.
That's on HBO, max. This is the perfect vehicle for what it was,
but see why Warner brothers four years ago, five years ago was like, yo, we can't put this out. Like we gotta make some changes. Now they tried to course correct. And they blew it. And at that point, they sh you know, three years, this isn't, your third movie was Zack Snyder in this universe.
You should know what you have by that point. and there was also some issues with they needed the movie to come out by a certain point in time, because they all wanted to get their bonuses. I remember that and they thought that Warner brothers was going to get, you get sold to somebody else.
So they were like, we just need this movie to come out so we can get our bonuses before we get sold to, larger corporation. so that, yeah. that'll put a, it's more of a project.
Absolutely. So there was no like that's, that's why they went with the we'll just film with him having a mustache with Superman, with a mustache and CGI at out later.
because they get it over with just waited. They would've missed their deadline and they wouldn't have gotten there, billion dollar bonuses and whatever.
And then we would have gotten a better movie, a better film. I think ultimately if they would've taken the time, they would've realized they could have made more money with it.
By making two films. You add, if you add back green lantern, you have so much more content. then you have two films worth of,
They were going to do a green lantern show. That was the plan so that they, that took Greenland enough to table. You could still,
why can't you still do a cream later show?
You're going to have a flash show, an Aqua man show these people. And they're like, their logic is so flawed. It's a, cause they could've made think about it. They could've made literally twice as much money at part one. And part two,
I would've gone to see part one. I would have been a little upset that I didn't get much of Superman, but then I definitely would have went to see part two to see Superman in it. so yeah. And Greenland,
I just think, I don't know. I just feel like we could have gotten, we could have just truncated a lot of that early stuff and gotten into Superman much earlier.
Like putting the team together could have been faster. Like just
yeah yeah. putting the team together. I don't think you need to have putting the team together and then let's get Superman. I think you can do some of that concurrently and then have them meet up.
You know what I mean?
Yeah. but the mechanism by which they got Superman back was to have cyborg and the flash.
They needed all of them except Aquaman really,
which they spent the most time writing, So arguably they could have one, they were already working on Aquaman. So maybe they could have got that movie up faster or to, just abbreviated the Aquaman scenes.
Cause you're right. They were a little bit longer than they had to be. I think the setup, the backstory for Aquaman. but other than that, I still don't think it would cut enough out of the film. So even if you abbreviate, even if you just had Aquaman show up with his Trident, it's still would be too long.
no. I mean like you need to see the mother box get taken from Atlanta's. and you can have that scene with Mira. as much as I like the flash interview scene for the dog-walking job, I think it really, it could be a it's between that scene and the scene with his dad in prison.
Like you only get to keep one of those two. I would probably jettison the scene with his dad in prison. and just do the dog-walking scene, especially if DC is saying, Hey, have a more upbeat movie. Then I think you go with that one. prison scene didn't
seem like it needed to even be there.
Yeah. Do you see his motivation for why he's doing any of the things that he's doing, but that could also just be explained in other ways, do you need the, him and Batman scene, of him or him being recruited by Batman? you can throw a line or two about his dad in there.
a re here's the thing is his dad is an integral part of the flash story, that is an important part of the flash story. And it's what happened to his mother and all that. So you're getting like the character development from having that scene in the interest of saving time.
Yeah. you could've cut it out, but it seems fairly important at to his character though.
yeah, I don't, I guess I think you're saying my thing is I don't,
it sounds to me like you're saying he should've wrote written an entirely different movie
Yeah, I think so. Except that
I think this movie needs it into character hours
long work. You still have the conundrum of having too many characters and not enough setup
drew you cut more. I think if you cut cyborg out, but then you have to have another mechanism for the mother box thing. Yeah. Yeah.
And he's, he's the emotional center of the movie. but he'll be writing it then I guess that doesn't have to be the case.
Cyborg was very likable. Yeah. In this version of it, I was like, Whoa, this is awesome. Yeah. But you're right. I don't know, man. Like, I don't know. I'm glad we got this version. That's all I'm saying.
No, I'm like I still like this, like I similar to I would put this movie right next to Batman versus Superman if I'm breaking all of the DC movies and I'm saying it's probably firmly in the middle, high, middle, somewhere around there, whereas justice league is dead last. Yeah, for sure. yeah, I think wonder woman is first. I think man of steel's probably after that, for me, honestly, the new Harley Quinn movie, my app might be the third one for me.
It might be my favorite. That was fun.
That was a fun movie. But there wasn't any
substance, yeah. I it doesn't have any like grand mythology or anything like that. And I was, I thought it was refreshing. yeah, it was just a, I thought it was a fun, colorful movie. self-contained
Like just its own side thing. Yeah. I didn't, I don't know that I liked the way, like she was always referring back to Mr. J and I like, it's just having them in the fricking movie, Like they could have really right.
Yeah. There were so many references to the joker that it bothered me. Like it took me out. I was like, why don't they just have him in the fricking show? Like how many times are you going to mention?
Yeah, Mr. J or whatever, come on. Just put them in there.
with the suicide squad, dealt with the joker was odd. I didn't like it.
okay. Suicide squad. I felt like there was another movie in there somewhere that got chopped to bits.
yeah. That was, yeah. Yeah. That's another one that we need, like a full re-edit directors cut of for sure. Because the movie that we got and the vision that the director had were two totally different things.
Yeah. Warner brothers is on fire with somehow dismantling their own films.
so it really self sabotage.
Here's the thing that's promising as we have HBO max now. And if they decide to back this Snyder verse, he can do whatever he wants. We can stream it as we want. It can be six hours, it can be two hours. It can be 30 minutes and we'll watch it. It's fine. You know, just have a story and do it.
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to be great, but like having that,
it makes me excited for flash point, having Ben Affleck, Batman in there, but then also having Michael Keaton, Batman in there, I think that'll be cool, playing around with some of that time travel stuff. multi-verse stuff for it.
We'll see where that goes.
My favorite film is I really appreciated wonder woman, but I don't think it was my favorite. I think after rewatching man of steel, I think that's my favorite. and then everything else is there's like a second tier of BVS justice league.
Wonder woman, maybe a little above that. I guess that would be the second tier. and then everything else is just down on the bottom. Like the birds of prey, the what's the other one we just said,
suicide squad. Shizam like,
yeah, man. Aquaman was all right.
I think I would put Aquaman.
I think I'm going wonder woman Manistee Steele, Aquaman, justice league Batman versus Superman. maybe those are flipped. I don't
know. Yeah. awkward man. Look cool. I don't know how, I don't know. I can't even remember anything from it, so it must not have been that.
Amazing. Yeah. I enjoyed the story. The story made sense that the visuals were amazing. The, I thought the music was really good too. they, I feel like they fit a lot in to that movie. .
Aquaman achieved something like it achieved in tone. What I think they were trying to go for, like having a lighter tone, but still being a serious movie. I feel like Aquaman did the best at riding that line.
Yeah. And tone wise. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't too dark.
Yeah. we need more hope.
I think it was Epic. I think that, I think this coming out now is a little bit depressing. It's like you said, it's the darker side of the DC universe. And so the timing on this, not the greatest, like I'm glad we have it, but it's still a little heavy and right. You know, being in this post, whatever times we're in, like we need just a little more hope I think.
And so hopefully they'll take that into consideration moving forward. If they do the nightmare universe that they at least have like a parallel reality where Superman is doing awesome, good things. And something like that, so that we're not just completely. Depressed.
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. yeah.
I agree. And on that note Hey, let us know what you think. If there, there should be common somewhere. this comments on the YouTube, leave us a comment, hit
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